EBAY--When exactly is negative feedback called for?

I'm not sure so I thought I would ask you.
You all (mostly) seem to be pretty level headed and after the last guy had a blow up over neutral,I thought I might think this through a little.

Let's say you got an item.
There was a poor description stating that the seller didn't know who made it due to a lack of labels.
You ask a question and get " I see these all the time and that's how I know what it is."
You get the item, and it is clearly labeled.
Now, I'm not saying it's a bad item, but the seller said they didn't know who the maker was even though it was clearly stamped in 1/4 inch tall letters and writing covered most of the surface.
BUT if the seller had disclosed the maker you wouldn't have bought it.

So you aren't empty handed, but you have something that you wouldn't have purchased had you known what it was, and are having a real hard time believing that the seller could miss something so obvious.

The label is so clear that a person would have to be blind to miss it, but they claimed it unmarked (actually they specified BOX LID MISSING and did not address marking on the item itself) and you are suspicious that they intentionally omitted information in their description.

never mind which item, this is a discussion of principles

When do you leave negative feedback?

With Paypal you should be able to get your $ back. If you want to punish the seller for being misleading and putting you through the hassle that is a judgement call on whether they deserve the negative and whether you want to warn the next guy.

Agreed. The item was not as described, so get your money back. Then leave negative feedback. I have no patience for liars. They bank on the fact that most people won't bother.

Well, ebay does provide ways to undo the transaction by mutual agreement, and there seems to be an "understanding" nowadays that the correct thing to do is discuss and resolve the matter amicably.

But if you think he deliberately lied? I'd say if he has less then 100% +ve feedback, just say what you feel is right. If he does have 100% - well pretty much the same, but be sure you're happy with what you're doing.

negative feedback IMO, is for when the seller is unwilling to resolve it outside of paypal, and has basically shafted you.

I sold a set of clocks for a motorcycle once, and this particular model of bike the clocks and the adjuster for the clutch cable used to rub. It was just one of those things. I took a picture and posted up these clocks, sold as seen noted in the description. This guy gets them and complains, we agree to refund him and he leaves negative feedback. After that, we said he could keep them.

Personally, if a situation is resolved ambicably, that's positive. If you're left dead in the water, negative.

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Originally Posted by gregs656

negative feedback IMO, is for when the seller is unwilling to resolve it outside of paypal, and has basically shafted you.

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good point
excellent point really
best point yet :rock:

A false description, whether in the auction or via e-mail, is still a false description. Sometimes people are uneducated about what they sell, but too many hide behind not knowing.
So its refund or blammo.

there are separate principles here.

the first is the concept that people who lie to customers should be financially punished for misleading them.

the other is how to warn others that this is a seller who's word is not to be trusted.

The eBay feedback system is broken and I don't know how to fix it. Their "fix" seems to have made less useful than before.

The seller's answer sounds a lot like one I got regarding an unmarked hone.

I followed the auction, but resolved not to bid.

If hes willing to resolve the situation give him the benifit of the doubt. If hes not willing to resolve without a dispute blast him. I have had to resolve situations before(things happen) and if they can be amicably resolved, I still leave positive feedback. I think the negative feedback is best for those who leave no doubt about their malicious behavior.

tough call.
others deserve a warning of such BS.
on the other hand, he should be more than happy to have it returned with full refund.
i ordered somethingadvertised as mint condition, in unopened factory box, the package came dented, and kinda open, it being for a collector didnt suit my purposes, i contacted seller and he sent me another, better wrapped, and refunded return shipping too.

to me this sounds like he flat out BS'd. id try to get a refund and leave neutral feedback, say the truth, he didnt know the manufacturer even though it was clearly labeled.
certainly would have ****ed me off though

there is no guilt involved in feedback, if someone screws up a transaction, thats what feedback is for, thats why everyone is sporting 100 percent feedback on ebay now, because everyone takes it personal and are to Soft.
ill leave negative feedback on a bad transaction so fast your eyes will spin.

if you can get your money back, neutral, if not, negative For Sure. like with capital letters and exclamation marks.
at the point of not shipping what u bought, its definitly a bad transaction, his feedback should reflect it. hell survive.

if you dont atleast mark it as neutral and leave honest feedback, theres no way of knowing whether or not ppl are deliberately playing dumb.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

If hes willing to resolve the situation give him the benifit of the doubt. If hes not willing to resolve without a dispute blast him. I have had to resolve situations before(things happen) and if they can be amicably resolved, I still leave positive feedback. I think the negative feedback is best for those who leave no doubt about their malicious behavior.

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I think this is the right idea ^ if he/she is understanding and accepts the return/you can work something out then I feel they deserve the good feedback because it would suck to go through the work of satisfying a person (even if the mistake was their own fault) and then still get back review...aka make their friendly coorporation worth their while.

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Originally Posted by Pyment

The seller's answer sounds a lot like one I got regarding an unmarked hone.

I followed the auction, but resolved not to bid.

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yeah and then I got my snipes crossed and bid on it LOL
now that we have had a reasonable discussion, and everyone is nice and calm, we can take a look at the facts

now let's spin this a little

It isn't a bad stone, actually, it's a fairly good stone.
BUT

you guys saw the :mad: " OK I bought it, what the heck is it?
thread
it finally came
Vintage Sharpener Razor Hone Stone Unused - eBay (item 250431605719 end time Jun-01-09 11:31:47 PDT)

so I open the box and what does the top say?

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...carb103021.jpg

the thing is, it will cost me $11 to ship the sucker back, so I still lose $11 even with a refund
:mad: $11 buys a lot of beer

so I am undecided on returning it.

can you keep an item (honestly I think people count on buyers being too lazy to returns stuff)
and leave or negative?

Returns be damned, I shouldn't have to return stuff.
If I wanted THEM to have it I wouldn't have bid to begin with.

they lie and it costs me $11 ?
no

can I keep it and blast them?

You've got a lot of response already, but I'll add my $0.02

There are 2 kinds of "not as described" issues.

A. The person selling made an honest mistake.

In that case, I would try to resolve the issue with the seller, and leave positive, neutral or negative feedback based on how well they resolved the issue. Anybody can make a mistake, and somebody shouldn't get negative feedback if the mistake was honest.

or

B. Deliberately fraudulent listings.

If the listing is deliberately fraudulent, I would leave no feedback at all IF and ONLY IF the seller immediately cops to it, and gives you a full refund including shipping. If the seller was anything less than 100% cooperative, I would leave very ugly negative feedback, and file a claim with paypal. Paypal can take quite a bit longer, but they will refund everything. (They may require you to ship the item back.

In any case, I don't think it's fair to keep the item AND leave negative feedback. Either you're satisfied with what you got, or you're not.

The other thing that will sometimes happen, is you will leave negative feedback for a seller because they refused to cooperate, and as soon as they see your negative feedback, they will offer you a refund in exchange for withdrawing your negative rating. Personally, I would never go for this. It means they know they are 100% wrong, and that you'll win your claim, and they're hoping that you'd rather get the money faster and not leave the negative.

Both, I think.

If you think you can get your money back if you sold it on, I would keep it and leave neutral about a lack of detail even when asked about an obvious specific (only word it better)

If you don't, get your money back and leave positive or neutral depending on other things like the time it took to ship, communitcation in general etc etc.

If he won't give you your money back, or ignores you or what ever, leave negative.

I wonder, you know, if he believed he was only telling a half truth when he said he didn't know the maker. Most people recognise carborundum as another name for silicon carbide, and don't nessercerily know it's a brand, if you see what I mean.

um... it says brand

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...carb103024.jpg

so if they return my money and I ship it back, then I can only leave neutral
if i just keep it and resell as what it really is, then I can also leave neutral

It says |ndum brand even.

If you get your money back and they get the stone back they can declare at eBay that the auction never happened to get their fees back and you can not (and should not) leave feedback.

if they get to much negtive feed back ebay will shut them down i bought some stuff from some one and they took about 8 weeks to ship it so i sent him a note saying i was leving him a negtive feedback and it all changed ebay had shut him down he sent me a tripel order to make me hapey he had to get his ratings up before he could sell again.

can I ask them to pay return shipping under threat of negative feedback?

is that considered extortion?

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Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

so if they return my money and I ship it back, then I can only leave neutral
if i just keep it and resell as what it really is, then I can also leave neutral

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fair enough on the brand thing.

That would probably be my approach, yes, but it's not my money or time being wasted - so it's pretty easy to be objective sitting here.

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Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

can I ask them to pay return shipping under threat of negative feedback?

is that considered extortion?

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I wouldnt threaten them, but I would make it plain that the return shipping is their responsibility and if necessary let them know that it will reflect in the feedback. Same as you said but with a little more tact. The trick I believe is to give them options that lead to a win/win scenario rather than one person wins the other takes the fall. Give them every chance to cooperate and do the right thing, then leave appropriate feedback. Be polite GW, kick butt only as necessary.:nono:>>>>>:rant:

After looking at the auction and the stone ....

Personally I would consider this auction to be fradulent.


If it was me, the guy would get negative feedback if I sent it back or not. The listing desscription I would consider to be inaccurate and well within the seller's ability to describe.

IMO, there is way too many auctions that 'slide' under the radar like this and this type of conduct gives ebay a bad name.

I don't know about the US but over here you're responsible for shipping costs if the item is below 40.00 Euro.

Threaten them just a bit and send them a link to this post, heheheh

(Yesterday I also sent a link and I'll get full refund of ~128.00 Euro with no discussions involved. * My fair share of dogs *)

The problem is that the guy already has 2 negatives. If he had 100% feedback I could see the unspoken threat of ruining the perfect score might influence him to pay for the return shipping. Since his score is already less than perfect and he does offer 7 day return privileges with the buyer paying shipping I don't think he will be receptive. It doesn't hurt to try though.

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Originally Posted by The0ctopus

there is no guilt involved in feedback

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True, but there are serious implications for sellers. If someone has less than 5 stars in all feedback areas, then any items they list get pushed to the bottom of the search results.

So even if you give them positive feedback, you can really mess up their sales if you give honest info. Oh, and I just realised - "Sellers will not be able to see the detailed seller ratings you leave."

I don't think it's a fair system, and users don't understand it enough. I once gave someone 4/5 for delivery time because the item took a few days longer than it could have done. It wasn't a problem, I was just giving technically accurate information. But I might have messed up their future sales. I felt pretty bad when I found out.

Nowadays I always give 5/5 star feedback when I'm 100% happy how it went. It may not be accurate feedback, but it achieves the desired result.

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

I don't think it's a fair system, and users don't understand it enough. I once gave someone 4/5 for delivery time because the item took a few days longer than it could have done. It wasn't a problem, I was just giving technically accurate information. But I might have messed up their future sales. I felt pretty bad when I found out.

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I think the system is more fair now. I don't see anything wrong with leaving HONEST feedback. If you don't leave honest feedback, then the better sellers cannot rise to the top and the poorer sellers get no incentive to do better.

Regarding the hone, it's a Carborundum 103. That is a very good barber hone. You have $27.50 into it now, put it up for sale in the Classifieds for $30 and you can walk away free and clear. Then you can leave any feedback you see fit.

I had a problem with an item I bought. The seller had a Rosetta Stone software language package for sale. Very cleary said the item was brand new, never opened, complete, and had pictures if it. I paid $200 for it as opposed to $450 it would cost new ... what I got in the mail was a pirated CD with god knows what on it.

I contacted the seller, and he agreed to refund my money if I sent the item back to him prority mail. Now this is where it gets good .... the item had a return address from New York, but I was told I had to ship the item back to CHINA in the next 7 days.

I use a Paypal credit card for ALL of my Ebay purchases, and after a review they refunded EVERY cent I spent on the item, and told me to "throw it away".

I live by the protection that Paypal gives me to use that credit card .... I would recomend them as a means to protect yourself from sellers that are less than honest.

As for the negative feedback, I had to in this case, but I am very careful about giving it .... once given, you can't "take it back".

Steve

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Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

yeah and then I got my snipes crossed and bid on it LOL
now that we have had a reasonable discussion, and everyone is nice and calm, we can take a look at the facts

now let's spin this a little

It isn't a bad stone, actually, it's a fairly good stone.
BUT

you guys saw the :mad: " OK I bought it, what the heck is it?
thread
it finally came
Vintage Sharpener Razor Hone Stone Unused - eBay (item 250431605719 end time Jun-01-09 11:31:47 PDT)

so I open the box and what does the top say?

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...carb103021.jpg

the thing is, it will cost me $11 to ship the sucker back, so I still lose $11 even with a refund
:mad: $11 buys a lot of beer

so I am undecided on returning it.

can you keep an item (honestly I think people count on buyers being too lazy to returns stuff)
and leave or negative?

Returns be damned, I shouldn't have to return stuff.
If I wanted THEM to have it I wouldn't have bid to begin with.

they lie and it costs me $11 ?
no

can I keep it and blast them?

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absolutely if thats what you want to do.
as i said, this is why every seller has 100 percent, even ones that do this crap all the time
you can always leave neutral, that doesnt effect his percentages, but still lets ppl know, that way if he does it again next week........ :nono:
theres nothing wrong with honest feed back.
its like if i bought a t shirt that said blank, unmarked, and it came with a clearly visible logo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

. But I might have messed up their future sales. I felt pretty bad when I found out.


Nowadays I always give 5/5 star feedback when I'm 100% happy how it went. It may not be accurate feedback, but it achieves the desired result.

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those stars dont hardly have ANY effect, especially not after a few ratings.

dont be ridiculous. thats what the feedback system is in place for. after 90 days or so its gone anyways
also the seller can visibly respond to your feedback, and itll have a big note right by your feedback if seller chooses to do so. such as " had oppurtunity to return, chose not to"
not a big deal.
ofcourse you give 5/5 when your 100 percent happy, who wouldnt, but if a package from the next city over takes 6 weeks to arrive, and is postmarked for 2 days ago, there feed back should reflect it.

this seller deserves atleast neutral. period. it wasnt a 5 star transaction. that means everything goes as planned, everyones happy, everything is as it should be.

god. this is why horrible nonsense sellers on ebay have 100 percent and 5 stars.:rant:sellers berate people who leave honest feedback, " oh you ruined my business, you SOB,you took me from 99.98 percent to 99.97 percent! blablablabal" its nonsense.
They ruin there business by not being professional, you dont ruin it by leaving honest feedback.
he can give you feedback as a seller too. i had 1 negative on my account that said " hastily left negative feedback, didnt even try to resolve the problem" it disappeared after a while without me even doing anything, im now back to 35+ all positives.(it was a completely non functional. poorly packaged, last minute christmas present, no way to reslove)

as you said, there shouldnt be problems for me to fix and then pretend it all went OK. hence feedback.

and the whole pushing the ads to the bottom thing is silly. you can sort them by whatever method you choose. who uses default searches.

funny story, you can shave off this thing

actually, it produces a really nice edge

now I'm even more angry :rant:

no, not because I look like a dummy now
I don't
just like Mr Octo said, if you order a shirt that says unmarked, and it has a logo, you would be angry


I'm angry because I had made up my mind to sell it, but now I kinda, just a little, want to keep it.
Ok, so I really want to keep it.
LOL oh jeez this HAD is killing me.........:(

I left negative feedback for the following situation:

A listing's picture of a razor was misleading in that it showed the razor with a couple of blades. To me that implied those blades would work with the razor. When the razor came I saw that the blades were inappropriate for the razor and the razor only worked with blades that were no longer available. That's OK for a collector, but not for someone who wanted to shave with it.

OK, the above is not enough to leave negative feedback. What put it over the edge was that it had a three-day return period and the seller did not respond to my email about it in that time. He did respond almost immediately to negative feedback!

His story was that he used three days because he sold many things on consignment and wanted to be able to pay consignees as quickly as possible. He didn't respond because the three-day period was over a holiday weekend and he had left on a trip. He offered to accept a return, and changed his return policy to seven days on future listings. His listing wasn't deliberately misleading -- he didn't know anything about the razor because it was a consignment item out of his area of expertise and just listed what he was given.

Bottom line: We resolved the issue in a way satisfactory to both of us and there is a way to remove negative feedback, which I did.

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Originally Posted by The0ctopus

those stars dont hardly have ANY effect, especially not after a few ratings.

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Untrue. I'll just quote this:

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You may be aware that recently there have been some significant changes to the eBay feedback system for evaluating sellers. These changes are partially reflected in the Detailed Seller Ratings (DSR’s) that appear in a seller’s Feedback Profile on eBay. Buyers may rate a seller on a scale of a possible 5 stars in four rating categories:

Item as Described
Communication
Shipping Time
Shipping and Handling Charges

According to the eBay instructions to buyers for rating sellers, buyers should leave feedback in conjunction with the DSR ratings that is completely open and honest about the buyers experience with that particular seller. The possible five stars relates a four star experience as equaling "Satisfactory". What the buyer may not be aware of is that a 4 star rating, although called "satisfactory", is not satisfactory at all, and will in fact penalize a seller.
Sellers who earn only four stars are not eligible to be Powersellers, will have their listings given reduced exposure in the eBay searches and will not be eligible for listing fee discounts. This either reduces the sellers profit, and / or increases the prices of the sellers products, both making it difficult to succeed.
All eBay buyers should be aware of the rating system and it's potential impact on sellers. Surely there have been many buyers who thought leaving a four star "satisfactory" rating would be the correct rating to express satisfaction, but not jubilation. Unfortunately the 4 star rating simply does not represent the buyers intended outcome. It means not good enough to be a successful eBay seller.
Please when rating good sellers be aware that rating 4 stars or less will hinder the seller greatly. Certainly some sellers deserve to be penalized, but be aware that if you truly are "Satisfied" , please rate with a 5 star.

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Now let me give you a GREAT example of how this system is flawed. Most of you know of Tony Miller. He makes wonderful hand-made strops that are so well crafted they look like they are made with machine precision. He has top ethics, he is friendly and helpful. I don't know anyone who doesn't respect him or who wouldn't like to do business with him. But if he was an eBay seller he would get ripped to shreds by the rating systems. He chooses not to do business at certain times - weekends, certain holidays etc. Now, he tells people about this up front, and it is to be respected. I admire him for it. Now imagine the Detailed Seller Ratings he'd get on eBay from whiners wanting instant gratification, and tell me the system is fair. EDIT> No, let's not talk about fair, just tell me it's meaningful.

Or how about this.

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Sellers are required to maintain a rating of at least 4.1 on each DSR to sell on eBay. Sellers with one or more DSR below 4.1 will be restricted from listing until their DSRs improve.

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So if ALL your ratings are 4 (=satisfactory) you will be banned from selling. Since you can't sell, there is no way to rectify the situation. You are permanently banned from selling on eBay for being judged acceptable.

so you agree with me then?
that means that if a seller isnt doing majority 5 star transactions as they should, they get penalized.
you must maintain 4 out of 5 stars, thats 80 percent.

it doesnt mean that 1 bad rating destroys there ability to sell, it means that over all, they must maintain atleast a 4.0+ . as they should.
all transactions, or atleast the vast majority, should be perfect.

I love how your bolding all the ends of sentences that start with [B]"IF YOUR COMPLETELY SATiSFIED"

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but be aware that if you truly are "Satisfied" please rate with a 5 star

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if you cant pull 5/5 stars, than you Shouldnt be selling on ebay. you defintly Shouldnt be a "power seller"
these arnt rights, there privelidges earned by the few that are professional enough to work from there homes. power sellers should be Perfect, and most of them are, i get messages all the time saying " shipped item today, if theres any problems at all id be glad to take care of them, please contact me before feedback" those ppl care. peple that dont care dont become the cream of the crop, "power sellers" as it were.
if the seller screws up, feedback. after that its sellers problem.

As ive said before, this pussyfoot mentality is why flat out scam artists are sportin 100 percents and 5 star ratings.

and you can leave neutral feedback and still give him 5 stars.
all itll do is leave a little note in there that says what you want, something like "said unmarked came clearly labeled"
that wont effect him.

ill bet a million dollars that article your quoting was written by a down-sliding ebay seller.

even the articles youve been quoting say, "if your satisified leave 5 stars". so. are you satisfied?
lets say you see a sweet looking blade, its advertised as unmarked, no identifying marks, then you get it and it clearly is labeled Bold as hell, Zeepk. are you gonna be all satisfied and happy. and just give this guy the benefit of the doubt. if he didnt look closely he shouldnt have been selling the item.
even by rajagra's generous mnethods this guy doesnt deserve positive feedback with 5 stars across the board.
he gets a 1 star for item description
and ebay's detailed seller stuff has been like that sincvei joined, its not new.
seller propoganda.
ebays pages arnt worded like that at all. they encourage feedback. which is why they put the system in place, and tightened its belt, because everyone is Wayyyyyy to kind.
i got ripped off by a guy with 80 plus positive ratings. never got my money back. there is no ebay buyer protection, you wont see a dime.
and you guys know some of these sellers buy feedback by hosting penny auctions back and forth to eeach other. thats why honest feedback is important. now that they hide names there almost impossible to expose.

and if you cant keep atleast 80 percent of your customers 80 percent happy, than you should be banned from selling, its not a right but a priveleidge.
All about Feedback
see, it doesnt say to just give 5 stars away. five stars for everybody!!! lets have a 5 star parade!!:td
What is Feedback and how does it affect my reputation?
just one of many many quotes that even evay is supporting me:
Important things to know about Feedback

*

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Always leave Feedback after a transaction so that other members may benefit from your experience.

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Quote:

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+1 point for each positive rating


No points for each neutral rating


-1 point for each negative rating

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as long as this guy has more positive reviews than negatives, hell be fine.

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Sellers may not require buyers to leave specific Feedback or detailed seller ratings. Sellers also can’t demand that buyers withdraw existing Feedback or detailed seller ratings. This applies to all Feedback activity, whether it happened before, during, or after delivery of goods or services described in the original listing.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation
Limits on account privileges
Account suspension
Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
Loss of PowerSeller status
Feedback rating and/or comment removal

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see ebay is against that all positive, free stars for everybody propoganda that your reading.

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eBay's Feedback-related policies are designed to encourage open and honest trading.

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this guy deserves neutral, with a 2 star rating for item description. thats what he earned, thats what he should get.
if u dont ill buy something just to leave negative feedback:p

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Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

funny story, you can shave off this thing

actually, it produces a really nice edge

now I'm even more angry :rant:

no, not because I look like a dummy now
I don't
just like Mr Octo said, if you order a shirt that says unmarked, and it has a logo, you would be angry


I'm angry because I had made up my mind to sell it, but now I kinda, just a little, want to keep it.
Ok, so I really want to keep it.
LOL oh jeez this HAD is killing me.........:(

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Let's see......:thinking:

Didn't someone tell you a Carbo 103 was a good barber's hone?:hmmm:

Welcome to the dark side!:D

wow

I've learned so much about ebay from this thread.

I had no idea about the stars.

Yes yes, thank you Ron, you are the man.